Partnerships and Smaller Markets (ft. Enjoy Creative) | Creatives Grab Coffee 25

Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee, a podcast on the business of video production, hosted by Dario Nouri and Kyrill Lazarov from Lapse Productions.

Our goal is to make the video production industry smaller by creating a sense of community. Whether you are a creative, an entrepreneur, or a professional there is knowledge for you to learn. Join us as we have industry professionals from around the world come on the show and share their insights on the industry and business. Welcome to Creatives Grab Coffee. Welcome to Video Production.

This weeks guest is Trevor Hnatowich and Scott Anderson from Enjoy Creative. Enjoy Creative is a video production company based in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. They are passionate about helping brands use video to overcome challenges and achieve outstanding results.

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Produced by LAPSE PRODUCTIONSwww.LapseProductions.com

Transcript

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:15:11
Dario Nouri
Welcome back everyone to creatives grab coffee. Today we have Scott and Trevor from Enjoy Creative. They are a full service production company based in Winnipeg that’s passionate about helping brands use video to overcome challenges and achieve outstanding results. Guys, welcome to the show.

00:00:16:01 – 00:00:16:09
Kyrill Lazarov
Welcome.

00:00:16:22 – 00:00:19:11
Speaker 3
Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. We’re excited to be here.

00:00:19:19 – 00:00:24:01
Dario Nouri
So I guess just so everyone knows who you guys are, white and when you give us a little background.

00:00:24:12 – 00:00:56:15
Speaker 3
Sure. Yeah. So like you said, we’re enjoying creative out of Winnipeg, Manitoba. We started in 20, 18. Scott and I went to school together at a college here Yeah, we’re, we’re a full service video production company. So we work with commercial clients across all kinds of different industries and sectors. We’re really passionate about working with our clients to truly understand what they’re trying to achieve and how we can help them with video That’s that’s pretty much our focus.

00:00:56:15 – 00:01:13:21
Speaker 3
We try to avoid I guess just, you know, making videos that go out to kind of die, so to speak. We we would really love if the videos we make actually have a life to them. And actually help the clients we’re working with. So that’s what we kind of strive to always do with our projects.

00:01:14:21 – 00:01:18:20
Dario Nouri
I like that. We don’t want to make videos that go to die. And that’s such a good.

00:01:18:20 – 00:01:19:18
Speaker 4
Way of putting it.

00:01:20:15 – 00:01:31:20
Kyrill Lazarov
In a way, YouTube is the place for videos to go to die, you know, if you don’t know what you’re doing with it because you’re basically putting it up, it’s like a video tombstone and then it’s ready to go.

00:01:32:20 – 00:01:34:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, just lives there.

00:01:35:17 – 00:01:37:09
Speaker 3
It can certainly feel that way sometimes for sure.

00:01:37:09 – 00:01:41:02
Dario Nouri
Yeah. So you guys started the company in 20? 18.

00:01:42:05 – 00:01:51:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. 20, 18. I guess. We’re actually very close to our four feet here and in a couple of weeks actually. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

00:01:51:14 – 00:01:52:21
Kyrill Lazarov
Well, congratulations.

00:01:52:21 – 00:01:54:15
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Yeah.

00:01:55:04 – 00:02:03:07
Kyrill Lazarov
Every, every year is a nice little milestone, you know, like, I remember when we hit the first, like four or five years as well. We were just like, Wow. Has it really been that long?

00:02:04:19 – 00:02:22:24
Speaker 3
Yeah. It’s hard to believe sometimes. It’s kind of just flies by and it, but it definitely does feel feel good. You know, you hear those stats about how many businesses fail, you know, in their first year and then by three years, how many more fall off there and don’t make it. And so it does. This definitely is that little sense of pride there for sure.

00:02:22:24 – 00:02:26:01
Speaker 3
And making it making it another year and growing.

00:02:26:01 – 00:02:30:13
Dario Nouri
That’s I think that’s that’s like if you can make it to five years, you can make it to ten.

00:02:31:03 – 00:02:31:23
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:32:09 – 00:02:33:03
Speaker 3
It sounds good. Well, they.

00:02:33:03 – 00:02:52:09
Kyrill Lazarov
Usually say that the companies or any business where if they don’t make it past three years, that they’re typically doomed to fail at that point. The funny thing is most of the companies we’ve we’ve had on the show have been at least five years plus in business. So I think you guys are probably one of the youngest businesses that we’ve actually had on the show to date.

00:02:52:09 – 00:03:04:20
Kyrill Lazarov
And, you know, like so kind of like tell us a little bit about like, you know, how you guys got kind of started in terms of like what made you decide to jump into being a business and how how it’s been so far on that on that end?

00:03:05:22 – 00:03:37:16
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, I think so we were both working we were both working in video right out of school. So I was in commercial video work and Trevor was doing documentary work but we stayed in touch. We were good buddies, I guess. So we we hung out quite a bit and we chatted. We were often talking a little bit about what we were seeing in the industry and you know, I guess by that point, video production, commercial, pre-production, social media, all that kind of stuff was just, you know, already really popular video.

00:03:37:16 – 00:04:02:09
Speaker 3
Video was it was kind of easy to spot. That video was growing in demand. There was a huge need for content, basically. So we we we saw that and we felt that, you know, there’s an opportunity there, but also, you know, there’s opportunity to have a little bit of creative control over over it if we if we start our own thing and try and make our, you know, our own mark and and do really good work.

00:04:02:10 – 00:04:20:12
Speaker 3
So that’s kind of what kind of what’s what sparked our interest in taking that leap into starting our own business. And yeah, I don’t I can’t say like I wouldn’t never look back like it. It was a great it was a great decision. It was a big decision at the time. But it’s worked out really well and it’s been a lot of fun.

00:04:21:03 – 00:04:35:04
Kyrill Lazarov
Did you see a need did you see a need or did you see a need in the Winnipeg market? Like, how big is it there in terms of video production? Like, like did you feel like there was a good opportunity for yourselves to kind of accelerate and grow quickly?

00:04:36:12 – 00:05:04:21
Speaker 3
I think we saw there was there was room. It’s Winnipeg is really tight knit, but very active. So it’s it’s there’s a lot going on here, but it’s all kind of part of a pretty tight community. So we already had some connections within that community. So it it felt like we were kind of just like taking a step kind of establishing ourselves among our peers at that point.

00:05:05:17 – 00:05:20:09
Speaker 3
And it felt like there was definitely room to kind of still fit in there and differentiate ourselves and make a mark with what we do so so yeah, I think I think we saw that there was an opportunity there to still kind of do something and stand out within the market.

00:05:21:06 – 00:05:39:01
Dario Nouri
That’s interesting because I was looking at production companies in Winnipeg and like you said, it is kind of like a small, smaller market. And it’s interesting to see that you guys are still able to fit into that market because again, it’s small, it’s tight knit. If I would, if I was in that situation, I’d feel like, oh man.

00:05:39:02 – 00:05:42:13
Dario Nouri
How do I how do I compete? Is like, is there anything left for me? You know.

00:05:43:06 – 00:06:07:21
Kyrill Lazarov
Like especially because there have been times where like we’ve been hired out on freelance with some other project with some other companies in the past where they’ve actually even flown us into like some of the inner provinces where there’s not as big of a marketing and video production community. So like, you’re also not only competing with those there, but also because of those organizations that have to bring in other people, you know, because they, you know, they’re more international with Canada.

00:06:07:21 – 00:06:13:01
Kyrill Lazarov
So it’s good to see that you guys managed to kind of still break into that even even even with that challenge.

00:06:15:02 – 00:06:39:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think it’s it’s an interesting perspective, I suppose. I guess like we it’s I’d say it’s like quite regional here. Like we a lot of the companies that we that are in our industry are working regionally within Manitoba, within Saskatchewan, northwest Ontario. They’re so I think that’s like a prevalent component of our industry. There’s some there is some kind of national component to it.

00:06:39:18 – 00:06:58:24
Speaker 3
But I think at the end, like most national stuff goes to Toronto, goes to you know, Vancouver or Montreal, that kind of thing. So I think there’s there’s that reality to it. But I think it also it doesn’t it there’s still like a thriving need, an industry and a need for for video work even within a regional kind of on a regional level, I suppose.

00:06:58:24 – 00:07:17:12
Speaker 3
So in some ways it’s kind of like to counter what you said there, Dario, like it’s it, it’s also not as it’s going to be. I could see going to Toronto in trying to start business and trial being scary because it’s just so much, so much work going on there. And how do you make, how do you stand out in there?

00:07:17:12 – 00:07:33:23
Speaker 3
Whereas here it’s a little bit of like, you know, a big a little or smaller pond to kind of like to kind of work within and in some ways I think, you know, it make it made us, you know, being seen and heard a little bit maybe a little bit easier. So it’s there’s I can see both sides of that.

00:07:33:23 – 00:07:56:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I heard from a Toronto transplant who was freelancing in Toronto, came here and and kind of mentioned that the biggest kind of eye opening experience for them was they don’t have to be laser focused on the job postings on Facebook and being like immediately seeing 30 comments on every job posted and saying like, I’m good for this, I’m good for this.

00:07:56:03 – 00:08:09:12
Speaker 3
And, you know, everyone’s undercutting on that entire list. Like it’s kind of like you just start working and make a name for yourself and, and jobs will come if you’re talented, I suppose. I mean, it’s harder than that, but you know what I mean.

00:08:10:01 – 00:08:10:13
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:08:10:23 – 00:08:12:00
Dario Nouri
Yeah. It’s funny and.

00:08:12:02 – 00:08:13:01
Kyrill Lazarov
The work to go around.

00:08:13:10 – 00:08:28:18
Dario Nouri
Yeah. Here in the newsroom that it’s, it’s funny like here in the producer group. You’re right. Like, as soon as there’s a job posting, there’s like 50 comments. We’ve even done listings on, on that Facebook. Yeah. Within like 30 minutes there’s like 30 people and I’m like, I can’t even go through this many. I just the.

00:08:28:20 – 00:08:34:17
Kyrill Lazarov
First time, the first time we did it, we actually gave our email, which was the biggest.

00:08:34:17 – 00:08:38:11
Speaker 4
Mistake of all time. Bad idea. And our inbox.

00:08:38:11 – 00:08:39:14
Kyrill Lazarov
Just got flooded.

00:08:39:20 – 00:08:40:08
Speaker 3
So.

00:08:40:08 – 00:08:42:07
Kyrill Lazarov
Badly not only that, but also our.

00:08:42:13 – 00:08:43:24
Dario Nouri
Our daily messages.

00:08:43:24 – 00:08:44:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, they just.

00:08:44:22 – 00:08:54:17
Kyrill Lazarov
Kept messaging like they would email and DM and comment and everything. And so at one point we just said, all right, let’s make an Excel spreadsheet or like, no, no.

00:08:54:17 – 00:08:55:21
Dario Nouri
No, no, no, no. We did a lot.

00:08:55:21 – 00:08:56:23
Kyrill Lazarov
Of stuff that forms.

00:08:57:04 – 00:09:04:18
Dario Nouri
Now we did something else first. We did a dumb thing. We created a separate email handle for it that was like an extra 50 bucks. We had to pay for it.

00:09:04:23 – 00:09:05:14
Speaker 4
Yeah, but.

00:09:06:24 – 00:09:13:11
Dario Nouri
Then we got smart, then we got smart, then we created a Google Forms for it, and then it kind of expedited the process for it.

00:09:14:24 – 00:09:22:22
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah. And then if people DM’d you after that, you know, when you explicitly told them to put stuff onto the farm, it’s like, Okay, so you didn’t read what I.

00:09:25:17 – 00:09:45:09
Speaker 3
That’s I mean, in some ways it’s got to be kind of nice because we, we, there have been scenarios where we’ve been trying to find a crew and it’s tough because our, our, our film industry is kind of kind of starting to have a bit of a boom. I guess you could say that as a get film subsidy in Manitoba.

00:09:45:09 – 00:10:07:14
Speaker 3
So a lot of kind of like TV shows and movie productions are starting to come here. So that’s like drawing a lot of, you know, that you know, traditional crew towards those. And then in the summer, you’re, you’re kind of like, who’s available right now? Yeah, every everyone everyone who you regularly turn to you is often on big productions with on the film side of things right now.

00:10:07:14 – 00:10:15:06
Speaker 3
So sometimes in the commercial world when you’re like, hey, I have this two day production, can you interrupt your three month commitment to come and do this thing.

00:10:16:03 – 00:10:16:09
Speaker 4
Where.

00:10:18:19 – 00:10:19:07
Speaker 3
You guys.

00:10:19:20 – 00:10:27:19
Kyrill Lazarov
So you guys are skeletal crews, not by choice, by yeah.

00:10:27:23 – 00:10:30:12
Speaker 4
Yeah, that’s right. It’s a bit of both. A bit of both. Yeah.

00:10:31:15 – 00:10:32:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:32:04 – 00:10:47:08
Kyrill Lazarov
Like here, it’s it’s a matter of like, you know, like people can kind of like choose almost like how big they want their productions and projects to kind of it. But they’re like, I can imagine. I mean, talent to be honest. Talent even here, believe it or not, is really hard to find you know, like like good while.

00:10:47:08 – 00:11:00:23
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah, good talent. Exactly. So, like, you, you get like 100 people applying on something and then maybe five or, okay, two are really good and or like, that’s roughly the ratio. So if.

00:11:00:23 – 00:11:02:06
Speaker 3
That’s and then one of the linguists.

00:11:02:18 – 00:11:06:17
Dario Nouri
And then one of the two, one of those two is very overpriced. And you’re like, this is.

00:11:07:14 – 00:11:10:10
Speaker 4
This is all too busy. Like, yeah, yeah.

00:11:10:24 – 00:11:16:08
Kyrill Lazarov
The worst is when people who apply who are way too busy and then it’s like, okay, but I guess what you.

00:11:16:09 – 00:11:19:12
Speaker 4
Going to you are an interesting so.

00:11:20:09 – 00:11:26:11
Kyrill Lazarov
Imagine like with it being that difficult here, I can’t imagine how difficult it is sourcing talent in your area.

00:11:27:03 – 00:11:57:18
Speaker 3
It it can be I think there’s like there’s busy seasons and I think I think Winnipeg is a is a big for better or worse it’s a big word of mouth town so there are there’s lots of talented people here and you have your go to use to kind of turn to you and then kind of when those don’t work out in your favor it’s like finding finding fresh people can be sometimes a challenge or a great opportunity to kind of bring someone on and kind of show them the ropes.

00:11:57:18 – 00:12:23:03
Speaker 3
But yeah, I guess that’s kind of where it lands it. I think relationships are really important, you know, like you got to it’s against smaller communities. So, you know, everyone knows one another. And and in some ways, once you kind of develop those relationships, it becomes a little bit easy because as long as available availability lines up, then you kind of establish that roster of people and you kind of work with them from from there on in.

00:12:23:03 – 00:12:40:20
Speaker 3
But but now there have been times where and not even nice like you hear from other people are like, do you know someone who does this? Anyone? We need them like tomorrow kind of thing. You get we get those kind of messages every now and then. But it’s, it’s, it’s it’s pretty good still at the end. Yeah.

00:12:40:20 – 00:12:59:06
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah. That’s that’s because of this, like, big challenge of like being able to find the right people, you know, and have the timings align, you know, that’s one of the reasons also why we, we started this show is to kind of like help, like, create like a little bit of a community between all the production companies where, you know, sometimes you need someone in another city then, but you don’t know anyone there.

00:12:59:06 – 00:13:28:24
Kyrill Lazarov
That’s good. You know, you want to have people that you can reach out to that you know, that can reliably either recommend someone or even help at the same time as well. Which has happened with a few of the guests that we’ve had on the show already. You know, some that are based in Montreal needed shooters here in Toronto for like a certain project, you know, and like this is like one of the ways that, you know, you can kind of filter out like good talent, you know, like really rather quickly, especially with the nature of quick commercial type projects.

00:13:28:24 – 00:13:37:04
Kyrill Lazarov
Right? We all have those days where the clients are just like, hey, you have someone that can shoot something tomorrow across the country.

00:13:37:11 – 00:13:38:24
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Like that.

00:13:38:24 – 00:13:39:16
Kyrill Lazarov
Happens all the.

00:13:39:16 – 00:13:41:06
Speaker 3
Time, right? And so now.

00:13:41:06 – 00:13:42:11
Kyrill Lazarov
It’s like, oh, maybe now there’s.

00:13:42:14 – 00:14:10:08
Speaker 3
Opportunities for it, right? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. We’re often on, on the receiving end of that here in Winnipeg, we found ourselves being kind of source to kind of shoot different things for four production companies across Canada in the States. And, and outside of that, actually, yeah. In the last couple of months, I think we’ve had like five or six just days shoot kind of like go interview kind of thing just from across North America, which is we like them.

00:14:10:08 – 00:14:17:23
Speaker 3
They’re kind of they’re kind of fun and easy to, you know, they’re kind of stress free in some ways. But yeah, they’re quick.

00:14:18:23 – 00:14:42:03
Kyrill Lazarov
They’re quick and simple. You like they’re very straightforward. You know, you’re working with other companies, you know, who have a specific kind of thing in mind for what you need to do. But it’s interesting that you mentioned that you guys do a lot of that in Winnipeg. Is that how much would you say that has been like a like in terms of your business, like 20, 30% of like the work that you’re kind of doing over there now or or is it very.

00:14:42:23 – 00:15:13:22
Speaker 3
I, I think we’re thinking because so we had in our first couple of years it would have been a good chunk, but it was because of the special circumstances. Since then, it’s, it’s pretty small. It’s like, it’s maybe yeah. It’s like it’s here and there but in the first I want to say our second year. Yeah. Just through crazy circumstance we were contacted by a production company in South Korea called you.

00:15:13:22 – 00:15:46:12
Speaker 3
You’ve got pictures, amazing people. Basically, they were filming a dog’s purpose that it was a movie. They weren’t filming that. That’s being filmed here. Yeah. Yeah. That Dog’s purpose was being filmed in Winnipeg. And one of the actors on that film was this caper K-pop artist as well, and this production company from South Korea. The only time they could fit in this music video shoot with this K-pop artist was when they were in Winnipeg filming A Dog’s Purpose.

00:15:46:12 – 00:16:14:19
Speaker 3
So it turned out that that he had a week off, a week break, and we were kind of source to like essentially like line produce this this K-pop music video, which was like the biggest production that we’ve ever done at the time, because it was it was a fairly big crew. It was in a remote location. The logistics of getting gear to this like cabin on a lake in the middle of nowhere was just kind of a giant headache.

00:16:15:10 – 00:16:42:00
Speaker 3
There was like a giant blizzard that happened. It was supposed to be this fall season. But of course, we’re in Winnipeg, and the first snowfall of the year was there it and oh yeah. Anyways, it was it was a ton of fun. The production went off smoothly for all the hiccups. It went off well. And then after that that kind of turned back to us a couple of times to do commercial productions in Winnipeg to kind of be an alternative to New York because we kind of have similar architecture and in certain areas.

00:16:42:08 – 00:16:42:23
Kyrill Lazarov
Oh, really?

00:16:43:11 – 00:17:03:18
Speaker 3
That’s sort of like any American city, like I guess Chicago or whatever we like there’s like just there’s like pockets of it that work for that. Yeah. So so they kind of turned to us for two more for four relatively large productions that took up, you know, months, months of our time. So that was kind of in our second year.

00:17:03:18 – 00:17:11:24
Speaker 3
So if you asked us that question, then it would be a larger portion of what we did. But since COVID, that’s, that’s kind of dropped off.

00:17:13:02 – 00:17:21:04
Kyrill Lazarov
I wonder how many, how many shows are out there, like maybe 80 or 90% that are based in New York but are actually.

00:17:21:04 – 00:17:24:00
Speaker 4
Filmed in random cities across the world.

00:17:24:14 – 00:17:27:15
Dario Nouri
So that it is Toronto, so. Right. I know. Yeah.

00:17:28:22 – 00:17:29:06
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:17:29:06 – 00:17:36:03
Kyrill Lazarov
We always like to see them try to hide like some of our street signs like Young Street or based X.

00:17:36:15 – 00:17:39:02
Dario Nouri
When we see the yellow taxis or the fake subways.

00:17:40:11 – 00:17:42:18
Speaker 3
Must be like the Manhattan like stand in.

00:17:43:14 – 00:17:47:15
Kyrill Lazarov
Exactly all they got to do is Photoshop out the sea and tower and then their gold is.

00:17:47:21 – 00:17:53:00
Speaker 4
Right. Yeah. Which we’ve seen. That’s hilarious. Oh, I’ve.

00:17:53:00 – 00:17:53:22
Kyrill Lazarov
Seen it in a show.

00:17:54:01 – 00:17:57:04
Speaker 3
So I was like, did they really just try to it.

00:17:57:15 – 00:17:59:09
Speaker 4
Better yeah.

00:18:00:12 – 00:18:12:09
Speaker 3
And and here and in Winnipeg, we noticed that what we did with them, instead of Photoshopping out the sand tower, they were, they were putting in putting it in arms instead of making us look a little warmer in the air that I was.

00:18:13:13 – 00:18:13:18
Speaker 4
Saying.

00:18:13:20 – 00:18:15:17
Kyrill Lazarov
Why is everyone trying to base.

00:18:15:17 – 00:18:15:23
Speaker 3
Their.

00:18:15:23 – 00:18:19:06
Kyrill Lazarov
Shows in New York? Like everything has to be in New York, but none of it is filmed.

00:18:19:06 – 00:18:22:19
Speaker 4
They’re going to real Xs, Max. Oh.

00:18:23:15 – 00:18:26:18
Kyrill Lazarov
No. I mean, like, just to base it somewhere else. It’s like, enough with New York.

00:18:26:18 – 00:18:28:03
Speaker 4
We’re sick of it because.

00:18:28:03 – 00:18:32:03
Dario Nouri
No one knows anything else. They just know L.A., New York, and that’s about it.

00:18:32:09 – 00:18:33:07
Speaker 4
And that’s it, right?

00:18:34:22 – 00:18:43:05
Speaker 3
It was kind of refreshing seeing the new Turning Red. The new Pixar film is set in Toronto, and it just. Oh, yeah, it’s Toronto a whole the whole way through is it was pretty neat.

00:18:43:22 – 00:18:45:15
Kyrill Lazarov
You know, down to the Metro passes, right?

00:18:45:23 – 00:18:48:00
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

00:18:49:16 – 00:18:58:24
Dario Nouri
So how long? How long? Just going back a little bit longer. Are you guys freelancers for before you guys decided to partner up and create a business?

00:19:00:10 – 00:19:25:20
Speaker 3
Sure. Yeah. So I freelanced for about a year and a half. I graduated. We both graduated in 20, 15. I freelance for about a year and a half. And then I was hired by a French television documentary production company here called Lucky Films work there for three and a half years before doing this. So that was kind of my past year.

00:19:27:18 – 00:19:37:20
Speaker 3
I didn’t freelance at all, actually. I was lucky to get hired right out of school. I, I went to a small commercial, commercial production company. I was there until we, until we started a start. Enjoy.

00:19:39:00 – 00:19:56:20
Kyrill Lazarov
So that must have been very interesting because you guys were basically already in jobs for a little while. Did it feel kind of scary to kind of leave those jobs to, you know, basically start your own thing? And they get usually it’s easier for freelancers because they’re already kind of used to that type of lifestyle. It’s just adding a name.

00:19:57:03 – 00:19:58:08
Speaker 4
To the to the.

00:19:58:08 – 00:20:08:21
Kyrill Lazarov
Freelancing, essentially. But when you’re when you’re already working at another company, like to make that switch, like what was like some of the first things you, you guys did to do that transition.

00:20:10:16 – 00:20:41:06
Speaker 3
Save, save some money, I suppose, to try and a day and have a bit of a safety net there. Yeah, no, I think it definitely, definitely was a little scary at the beginning there. I think I think the I think part of it was that we just we we felt pretty darn confident about our our network, I suppose like we had we had like through school and just through the through the four years of working in the video industry.

00:20:41:06 – 00:21:04:13
Speaker 3
Like we kind of kind of got a sense of like what the what the demand was like and where the opportunities for getting some work were. And we I think we felt fairly confident that, you know, like you know, there’s a chance that this could just flop and fail and that’s fine. And it’s better to do that now at like a younger age, we didn’t have like neither of us have kids and neither of us had a house at that time or anything like that.

00:21:04:13 – 00:21:26:02
Speaker 3
Like we were pretty, you know, not a lot of responsibilities. So, like, if things totally failed, you know, it wasn’t you know, a drastic fall out. But at the same time, you know, we felt really confident that, you know, we would we would be able to make it work and and we definitely were you know, we basically said yes to everything, you know, in that first year.

00:21:26:02 – 00:21:45:19
Speaker 3
You just yeah, you do what you can to get that next project. And that’s that was that was a big part of it. Yeah, it definitely was. There was you know, it was it was a tough decision because as excited as I was for it and and as confident as we were like, it would it would be a lie if I said it wasn’t a tough decision.

00:21:45:19 – 00:22:08:16
Speaker 3
Like it was scary leaving some stability in in regular income in, you know, the lack of stress of just having someone else kind of manage everything and kind of try to that is just the the personal relationships that you kind of build that at your jobs. Like I I’m close still with everyone at at my job at work.

00:22:08:16 – 00:22:24:23
Speaker 3
You films and it was really scary. You know, even just leaving that like bringing up that I’m about to go do my own thing was was a big step. But luckily everything everything worked out great and like we’re still really close and and I’m super happy we we did it and and now we’re here so.

00:22:26:01 – 00:22:45:22
Kyrill Lazarov
One thing I really like what you guys mentioned when is that one thing a lot of companies typically do or people they give advice when they’re starting a business is like, oh, they wanted to make sure they have enough savings, which is the standard thing everyone wants to have, you know, at least a little bit of a safety nest egg that they can, you know, kind of fall back to if they need to.

00:22:46:05 – 00:23:03:23
Kyrill Lazarov
But what you guys what I really like what you guys did was you had you felt confident in your network like very. And you had you were kind of like almost like taking inventory of that. It’s like how big is our network and does can we leverage that in a way that we will be successful over the next few years?

00:23:04:08 – 00:23:22:20
Kyrill Lazarov
And I think that is something a lot of people don’t typically take too much into consideration when they’re starting a business. You know, technically speaking, when you and I started, the business was the worst time in a way. We were basically from zero, completely from zero. Like we started the business while we were still in school. We were barely in the industry at all, so we didn’t know anything about it.

00:23:23:03 – 00:23:42:05
Kyrill Lazarov
So essentially the first four or five years was like almost like freelancing for a little bit, you know, but under another under a business name. And then it was only like until the pandemic. It was when we actually started to treat it more like a business whereas you guys, you’ve already been in the industry. You learned on your own from different experiences.

00:23:42:05 – 00:23:59:00
Kyrill Lazarov
You came together, you leveraged your own individual networks, and you knew that you guys will be successful from that. And I think that’s what a lot of people need to think about. It’s like, sure, you have a nest egg, but how quickly will that nest egg go if you don’t have the connections or the or the leverage to kind of prop yourself up in the future?

00:23:59:00 – 00:24:00:19
Kyrill Lazarov
Right. So kudos to you guys.

00:24:02:06 – 00:24:19:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s funny, you know, it’s so I think what we hear often is when someone’s like, oh, I’m going to start business on my that. The first question is, okay, like where’s your first sale going to come from? And that’s like, that’s like a scary question. Sometimes at that early stage you don’t necessarily know.

00:24:19:24 – 00:24:34:05
Speaker 3
But I think just knowing that you have people to turn to and people that you can say like, Hey, this is what I’m doing now, you know, you’re not necessarily going to jump into like cold calling or anything like that. That’s that’s the most scary thing to do. But being able just to go to people and say, Hey, this is what we’re doing now.

00:24:34:05 – 00:24:49:23
Speaker 3
We’d like love to you know, help out in any way possible. Like, we, we, we did that very much like a big part of our, our when we started was a big push just to let people know that this is what’s happening now. We’re available and we’d love to help. And, and yeah, we got a really strong response from that.

00:24:49:24 – 00:25:08:00
Speaker 3
You know, people go, you know, spread the word, that kind of thing. So word of mouth played a huge factor yeah. And the, the like list that we made to contact people right off the bat there, they weren’t necessarily, you know, like hard business contacts. They were just like everyone in our network. We’re just saying like, listen, this this is what we’re doing now.

00:25:08:00 – 00:25:25:03
Speaker 3
We just want you to know. And, you know, the large majority of that list just said like, oh, hey, cool. Congratulations. Good luck. But just by it kind of putting the word out there that we were doing this thing, I think we got some projects out of those. Really, like, we definitely got some of those really built to this day.

00:25:25:03 – 00:25:54:04
Speaker 3
We we are still getting projects from those initial kind of filler emails and calls that we did. So yeah, it was an important first step and maybe like a a bit of a another kind of component to it as we went. We, we didn’t go to like we went to a communications program for our school. So we, we each had like a media component, but it also had a marketing component, a PR component and a journalism component.

00:25:54:10 – 00:26:13:01
Speaker 3
So the benefit there is that we like, we, you know, we got a pretty we got a pretty good media education, but we also got a really good communications education. And but we also built a network of communicators now. So a lot of our past, our colleagues from school are now in marketing positions, in communications positions throughout the city.

00:26:14:00 – 00:26:38:22
Speaker 3
And that that’s been super valuable where, you know, those are the individuals that are now hiring us for for their companies or for their organizations. So that that was I think there’s a lot of weight to that that like maybe it’s easy to gloss over. We weren’t just like strictly video for people like we had that other side in that that is what our network was made of it in a sense.

00:26:38:22 – 00:26:41:05
Speaker 3
So that that certainly helped I think. Yeah.

00:26:42:08 – 00:27:05:23
Dario Nouri
Yeah. When you when you start your own business, you got to leverage just everything that’s at your disposal. Like you guys are never leveraging your network, which is, which is really good. And I guess you guys were at an age where like they were already kind of moving up in their careers and everything where unfortunately for us, when we first started out, we were just trying to learn the skills to be able to become filmmakers like we spent like several years just trying to fine tune those.

00:27:05:23 – 00:27:25:04
Dario Nouri
And like Carroll said, it was then up until the pandemic that we really kind of just sat down and tried to develop our business skills for there. So I’m kind of wondering when you guys first started, like you kind of went from being employees companies or freelancing to now you have to run your own business, right? Like it’s a whole different skill set.

00:27:25:04 – 00:27:37:09
Dario Nouri
So how did you guys adapt to that? Because it took us as many years that to oh, nominee. Oh, we’re still are still learning like nothing like I’m a professional now, but the never ends the learning.

00:27:38:11 – 00:28:05:17
Speaker 3
Definitely. Yeah, I think there is there is probably like I mean you just had a perfect we’re always still learning. There’s always like stages. Like I think when we first started, there was like a like an independence and a kind of like exciting freedom that came with not having the most work at the time and just dreaming about the prospects of what could come.

00:28:05:17 – 00:28:31:04
Speaker 3
And the projects that we did have, we could give 100% attention to all the time. And then, you know, as, as you kind of work on more and more and you get busier and busier and you, you hire that first employee and the second employee suddenly you know, there’s, there’s very new stresses. There’s there’s managing a team, there’s you know, like client, the process the client goes through to make sure that nothing slipped through the cracks.

00:28:32:00 – 00:29:07:04
Speaker 3
These are all things we’re always kind of working on. And I’ve found personally that I’ve learned or like I’ve really started enjoying that side of things. I still really love the filmmaking side of it all. That’s why I do what I do. But as these things kind of come across my, my desk, it’s it’s been really interesting seeing you know, the kind of things we have to do to make sure that we’re we’re still in a good position, we’re still growing, we’re still on top of things, and we’re still producing great work it’s it’s been a challenge, but it’s been really kind of fun.

00:29:07:14 – 00:29:25:04
Dario Nouri
How do you guys do you guys how do you like what do you do, like what is Trevor do versus like, what’s got this you guys kind of like split everything half and half, like you guys both taking care of like the business end and the creative end or is one more business focus, one more creative focused yeah.

00:29:25:04 – 00:29:47:08
Speaker 3
It’s a funny one that I think we for the longest time and and still to this day, I think very much of split things pretty pretty 50 50 we I don’t know I think like when it comes to like more of the business stuff, the admin stuff, managing that kind of thing. Like we both wanted to be aware of it and learning it, you know, and understanding it and I think like that’s what we’ve done to, to this day.

00:29:47:08 – 00:30:04:06
Speaker 3
And I think, you know, as we grow at some point that’s going to like split off. It doesn’t make sense anymore for us to be like doing all the nitty gritty stuff. But we really, you know, both kind of neither of us, we’re just kinda like, no, I don’t like it. You do it kind of thing. We were lucky that we both kind of committed to that and worked hard on it.

00:30:05:17 – 00:30:27:11
Speaker 3
And, and so far it’s been good. I think it makes, you know, we make a lot of decisions together where we, you know, discuss things and and neither of us are kind of going rogue or anything like that. I think creatively there’s like a bit of a split there and we’ve, we have in the past shared a lot of responsibility and both across our productions.

00:30:27:11 – 00:30:49:02
Speaker 3
But cut somewhat recently in our we’re doing a bit of a bit of a split in our specialties where I’m taking on a bit more of a focus on animation, whereas Trevor is focusing a little more on the live action side of things. So that’s probably I think where we will see our our roles maybe splitting a little bit in the on the production side.

00:30:49:02 – 00:31:16:24
Speaker 3
But yeah, it’s, it’s interesting because I think the classic like you hear all those examples of like past like teams and what like how they had like different strengths that kind of like we’re compatible together, like the Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak story and all those kinds of things. And you and you’re kind of like, no, I it’s definitely but in my area, I’m like, oh, man, you and I have very similar skill sets, very similar like strengths and that kind of thing.

00:31:17:03 – 00:31:29:00
Speaker 3
But at the same time, it’s made it like to be like a really compatible it’s been easy to work together on things and very, very few, if any complex that we’ve ever encountered or anything like that along the way. So yeah, yeah.

00:31:29:05 – 00:31:45:01
Dario Nouri
Okay. So we were talking about partnership. How do you guys, how do you guys mesh together? Like, you guys have a good look. You guys were friends before, right? Has that, like, friendship change as you guys became a business question?

00:31:45:02 – 00:31:45:08
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:31:46:01 – 00:32:09:10
Speaker 3
I don’t think so. I think yeah, I think I mean, we’re good friends for our good friends now. Yeah. No, no crazy dramatic business stories about yelling matches or big disagreements or anything like that. We’re usually always on the same page and if, if, if there are problems, we’re pretty good at working it out. Like, not problems between us or anything like that.

00:32:09:10 – 00:32:27:08
Speaker 3
Like, just like stressors in the business. Or situations going on. I think if anything, we’re pretty good at just like chatting with each other and just coming ourselves down and kind of taking another stab at you know, a fresh look at whatever is in front of us and going from there. So, no, it’s, it’s been great.

00:32:27:15 – 00:32:35:01
Dario Nouri
Yeah. When we first started and we’re telling people, it’s like, oh, yeah, we started this business and we’re partners. These two friends were easily friends, are still friends.

00:32:35:02 – 00:32:38:11
Speaker 4
My friends you.

00:32:38:11 – 00:32:47:00
Dario Nouri
Know, we’re friends and everything. They always told us like, oh, that’s a terrible idea. It’s not going to end well. I’ve five plus years later, here we are.

00:32:47:14 – 00:32:48:17
Kyrill Lazarov
Talking about it’s been seven.

00:32:49:06 – 00:32:50:18
Dario Nouri
Seven years later. Here we are.

00:32:51:12 – 00:32:52:04
Speaker 4
But look.

00:32:52:11 – 00:33:19:10
Kyrill Lazarov
The thing is, like with any partnership, you know, like any business you’re going people are always going to bump heads, you know, on, on some things. Nothing’s ever completely seamless. You know, like sometimes you’re going to have disagreements on certain things. And what do you do? You have to figure it out. Talk it out. You know, you both make points of like why something’s good, why something isn’t, you know, and then you come to an agreement and, you know, you provide a collective front on, you know, what you do with the business, right?

00:33:19:19 – 00:33:34:21
Kyrill Lazarov
You know, they like nothing’s ever going to be like, you know, without any kind of a cover. This is how business actually evolves, right? You know, if everyone wasn’t, you know, at least like kind of like bumping heads a little bit at times, you know, the businesses won’t progress. You know, I mean, look at what happened with some of the biggest companies in the world.

00:33:34:21 – 00:33:53:07
Kyrill Lazarov
There was so much drama that was happening behind the scenes. You know, it wasn’t great. But, you know, to that to their credit, the businesses did thrive and grow as a result. Right. So it’s always good to kind of like have someone that you can kind of bounce ideas off of. You know, like you guys have you know, it’s like, hey, what do you think about this idea?

00:33:53:07 – 00:34:12:05
Kyrill Lazarov
It’s like, oh, I think it’s good, but let’s try this or No, that doesn’t work because I’ve seen this, you know, like it’s good to have that kind of internal filter within the business. You know, like we know some people who are by themselves in a business, you know, and they unfortunately don’t have that internal buffer within the business that they can kind of bounce off of, you know.

00:34:12:05 – 00:34:18:01
Kyrill Lazarov
And, you know, it’s not a disadvantage necessarily. You know, they have other advantages, but, you know, it’s it’s a different type of dynamic.

00:34:19:11 – 00:34:38:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely. I think that I think that was I think one of the appeals of like it’s just starting something so low was to have like a partner in it where you can where you can kind of share those decisions and get a different perspective. And I think that’s been so, so valuable throughout like the past few years.

00:34:38:22 – 00:34:59:17
Speaker 3
And even as we’ve grown and added people to our team, like adding those perspectives as well has been really great. I think it’s nice having it. It’s important to have different voices in the room and it’s definitely, I think in like without a doubt been far more of a strength to like work as a partnership as opposed to going solo or anything like that.

00:34:59:17 – 00:35:01:10
Speaker 3
It’s been yeah, yeah.

00:35:01:19 – 00:35:05:02
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah. You mentioned you have a team of people. How big is your core team now?

00:35:06:06 – 00:35:08:11
Speaker 3
There’s five of us in total, so three, three employees.

00:35:09:09 – 00:35:14:04
Kyrill Lazarov
Okay. Yeah. And what are like their roles within the business at this point?

00:35:15:08 – 00:35:32:12
Speaker 3
So we have a shooter, Ed, we have a motion designer, and then we have a project coordinator who really has helped a set to kick off a little bit that production load, our production management load, I suppose. And we’ve been able to continue to work more hands on with the projects themselves. Yeah, I.

00:35:32:20 – 00:35:53:18
Kyrill Lazarov
I think that’s a good kind of balanced in terms of like the roles. You guys have basically checked off all the like the key ones that we typically all look, look for when projects tend to scale. Right you know, you got the, the, the hybrid shooter, Ed, you know, who can take on a role depending on what is needed, you know, and then you guys can hire other people, you know, depending on the scale the project you have your motion graphics designer.

00:35:53:18 – 00:36:23:02
Kyrill Lazarov
That’s the hardest to find. You know, most of them are very, very freelance based and because of how complex those those jobs are, I mean, we don’t necessarily get a motion graphics project come through the door that often where it warrants that kind of need. But by then, like you said, the production coordinator who manages all that, because when you’re managing ten clients at once, you know, it’s just like, oh my God, how many emails am I going to send out today?

00:36:23:09 – 00:36:44:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. I think I think there was a point we had like this collective epiphany at one point where like it was a crazy busy week and like at the end of the day, we realize like, I don’t know if we spent like a single minute on anything except just client communication for the past two days. Like it’s bad have been.

00:36:44:13 – 00:36:47:18
Speaker 4
So it’s, and it’s like.

00:36:47:23 – 00:37:04:07
Speaker 3
Okay, cool. Like what do we, what do we do about this? Like, this isn’t, this isn’t necessarily sustainable. I mean, for our goals, like what we want to do, like this happens isn’t necessarily the world we want to live in. So yeah, it’s been, it’s been a huge, huge help on that side of things. So it’s been great.

00:37:05:00 – 00:37:23:10
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah. Especially when there have been I remember there was one particular project where it was just like a simple type of corporate style shoot, but they wanted to do it in a, in a studio. They had a very specific kind of request for it and they had a very quick timeline. It like, we need you to do this in like a week, right?

00:37:23:16 – 00:37:39:14
Kyrill Lazarov
But then you have to go check the, the studios that are available to see if they’re any good, if they can provide you what you need, you know, just even doing those things, you know, it takes so much time. It’s like half hour to an hour to drive to it, half hour to review it out, hour half hour to an hour to come back.

00:37:39:14 – 00:37:56:09
Kyrill Lazarov
If you have to check multiple. There you go. That’s a whole day gone that you couldn’t been working on other things, you know, like creative briefs, you know, outreach, you know, networking, you know that that’s why you need more and more people to join over time to just kind of help alleviate that load.

00:37:56:23 – 00:38:20:13
Dario Nouri
There’s like a point when you’re running a business where it just the the pre-production work or just communications just starts to snowball into like a big pile of work. And it’s so time consuming and it’s like because you’re so used to doing it, doing all that stuff by yourself. But like, I feel like there’s like that one moment where you’re like, I can’t, I can’t do this by myself anymore.

00:38:20:13 – 00:38:41:09
Dario Nouri
It’s just taken away from other things that I can’t do other work. I can’t get other projects that I can’t. I don’t have enough time to create a proposal or like work on my pitch. It’s just crazy how quickly that happens. Like we’re in the process right now. We’re I think we’re quickly approaching that stage. So pretty soon we’ll probably have to start thinking about maybe bring it on like a production coordinator or someone else to help us out with that.

00:38:42:07 – 00:39:06:09
Kyrill Lazarov
Yeah, I mean, the first talent that we started to hire out for it was having an editor, right? Because before we were basically just taking turns that based on the projects when you’re editing, I’m sure you guys have felt this before. When you’re editing a project for, you know, 8 hours, 7 hours of the day and then the other guy calls you, it’s like, Oh, we got to work on that proposal for that other client.

00:39:06:09 – 00:39:07:18
Kyrill Lazarov
It’s a getaway for me.

00:39:08:04 – 00:39:09:06
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:11:14 – 00:39:31:10
Speaker 3
But the hardest thing in the world is like exactly what you just said. Especially when you, like, look at your schedule, too, and you’re like, Okay, I have 3 hours to edit, but it’s like, it doesn’t always work like that, you know, like, you need me to get in the groove of editing. Like, you can’t just schedule 3 hours to edit and expect, like, a good product in the end.

00:39:31:10 – 00:40:04:22
Speaker 3
Like, it’s been tricky. Yeah. Our our sugar editor was our first our employee and yeah, big, big time. They’re like, you know, getting that assistants on the editing side of things was so, so crucial. And I think yeah, it’s, it, it becomes quite challenging to like pivot from one task to another. Like you go, yeah, go from a place, I’ll go from like some emails, go to edit and like if you’re trying to squeeze editing in within an hour or two, like that’s not, not a good recipe for editing.

00:40:04:22 – 00:40:16:06
Speaker 3
Editing, you kind of you need to sink your teeth into it a little bit, right? So having that, having that extra help on the editing was so crucial for us to huge. Yeah. To grow. Yeah.

00:40:16:21 – 00:40:38:12
Kyrill Lazarov
We were afraid to, you know, because at the time we probably weren’t making as much money to the point where we thought we could afford to start hiring editors for projects but then once we started doing it, we started seeing how much more time we had to generate new business to, to contact people, to improve our briefs, to improve our website, to improve our, our marketing material.

00:40:38:12 – 00:40:55:24
Kyrill Lazarov
It’s like, oh, wow. Like now we have more business so that we can bring these people in. So that’s the one, the one thing a lot of people need to like. You know, remember, it’s like, don’t be afraid to bring in help, you know, because that gives it opens up the most valuable resource, which is not the money.

00:40:55:24 – 00:40:56:16
Kyrill Lazarov
It’s the time.

00:40:56:22 – 00:40:57:04
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:40:57:23 – 00:41:24:00
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, yeah. I think and I think we like think of it, you know, as we grow, it’s that question of do you want to be more hands, like remain hands on with the work and truly do kind of the craft of video or, you know, are you prepared to kind of maybe give up some of that to, you know, manage a team that can do it and you still, you know, ultimately you still part of the team that’s making really incredible content.

00:41:24:00 – 00:41:39:05
Speaker 3
But you’re now a little bit on the outside of the creative process maybe, and you’re more on the managing side of things like that. Those are two kind of competing components there. But I think and there’s not really a right or wrong, right. It depends on what your personal preferences are and what you want to get out of like your day to day.

00:41:39:05 – 00:41:46:04
Speaker 3
But it’s a part of it’s a part of the day to day, regardless of how how you what you do. I suppose so.

00:41:47:04 – 00:41:50:00
Kyrill Lazarov
Absolutely. It’s like the first steps to growth, right?

00:41:50:24 – 00:41:52:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

00:41:52:15 – 00:41:53:12
Dario Nouri
Okay. Well, I think.

00:41:54:05 – 00:41:54:16
Speaker 4
That’s.

00:41:55:19 – 00:41:57:07
Dario Nouri
We should probably end it off there now.

00:41:57:14 – 00:42:18:20
Kyrill Lazarov
Like is somewhere right there. But yeah, like I honestly, guys like this, I really like the kind of direction that this conversation where we were talking about the importance of talent and bringing in the right people. It’s, it’s always nice to hear other people’s perspectives, especially in the, in places that, you know, not many people get a chance to hear from, you know, like and, you know, we really, really thank you guys for joining us.

00:42:18:20 – 00:42:27:05
Kyrill Lazarov
But before we before we end the show here, one question we like to ask a lot of our guests is how did you guys come up with the name enjoy creative.

00:42:27:20 – 00:42:28:04
Speaker 4
Is.

00:42:30:05 – 00:42:36:17
Speaker 3
Oh man. Look, a lot of lists. I guess this the word that’s familiar.

00:42:36:23 – 00:42:37:08
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:42:37:14 – 00:42:49:22
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think a notepad it’s probably still I think we ripped the page off and put it somewhere but it’s of all these kind of names some better than others and I think just kind of like workshopping them. You are all availability.

00:42:49:22 – 00:42:50:03
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:42:50:13 – 00:43:10:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. Does the website exists? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I it’s not the most glamorous story, but it was one that we kind of liked and we thought it represented. I think we are part of what we’ve always wanted to do is to be, like, to have fun, like, try and have fun with that. We are in a fun industry video.

00:43:10:13 – 00:43:23:19
Speaker 3
You know, it is extremely stressful, without a doubt. But at the same time, it’s really fun. Like, we’re making we’re making really cool content. So I’m trying to like encapsulate a little bit of that fun minute I think was a part of the appeal to enjoy. Yeah.

00:43:24:23 – 00:43:29:05
Kyrill Lazarov
Nice. Was that like the first one on the list or was it like number ten? 15?

00:43:30:04 – 00:43:43:04
Speaker 3
I don’t know. I don’t know. Yeah, yeah. I think we I think we like we there was we like we had like a pro and con like we have a pro and con comments. There was like a.

00:43:44:24 – 00:43:45:08
Speaker 4
What.

00:43:45:08 – 00:43:45:13
Kyrill Lazarov
Was.

00:43:45:14 – 00:44:17:20
Speaker 3
Science like if you’re, if you can give your business a personality. What? Oh yeah. What do you use to describe that personality? And then like using those words like what you know, what kind of what’s the word I’m looking for a word map or whatever. Yeah, around those words kind of like come in your mind. So yeah, there’s a bunch of we had too much time and know that the like the creative component of it, you know, there’s like this media, there’s creative, there was video, there’s films, there’s what else could be, I don’t know, all those options.

00:44:18:05 – 00:44:22:24
Speaker 3
Yeah, Joy Productions. Exactly. Yeah, right. Yeah. I was like, I to get.

00:44:24:10 – 00:44:36:21
Kyrill Lazarov
Oh, that’s great. Well, guys, thanks again for joining us. Creatives grab coffee. You know, we’ll definitely be keeping in touch with you guys and who knows, maybe in another year or two we’ll have you guys for a recurrence episode.

00:44:37:20 – 00:44:41:02
Speaker 3
It would be fun. Thanks so much, guys. Yeah, thanks for having us.

00:44:41:19 – 00:44:43:21
Kyrill Lazarov
Thank you. All right. Take care, guys.

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